How to help someone drive stick when the car has a REALLY weird clutch

"Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car" (pilot-and-car-guy)
07/22/2015 at 12:54 • Filed to: None

Hi all,

My car has a really weird clutch. It’s a cable clutch, and it is REALLY heavy, it bites in a different place each time (always within a ~4” area, just not consistent.) Even people who are quite good at driving manuals, (Denver, many of my family members, other friends), ALWAYS stall and grind for a while before they can drive my car. I was helping Denver with it last night, I taught him the same way my uncle taught me, let the clutch out really slowly and wait for it to bite, NEVER touch the gas pedal. If you think you’ll stall, clutch in, get to full clutch out, and rolling, then you can hit the gas. It helped a lot. He was far better at driving my car than before. Any other ideas to help people adapt to a super odd clutch?

Alfa for your time.

DISCUSSION (49)

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 12:57

I’d try the same method. But, I hope they actually want to learn, because it might prove stressful and difficult. Just avoid hills. Is it an old car? Can you play with the idle to make starts easier? (I.E. raise the idle to make stalling harder less prone)

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 12:58

If you can’t find it grind it.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
07/22/2015 at 12:59

Please no. This car is at 230k miles, 3rd clutch, original tranny and engine. I want it to work for a while.

04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches. > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:00

Step 1. You teach them that this is how a clutch should be.

Step 2. They buy a hydraulic assisted clutch car and never bother you again.

Step 3. Racecar.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:00

Kinja'd!!!

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2
07/22/2015 at 13:01

‘98 sentra.

And they do. He (Denver) was begging to drive. It’s just a weird clutch so I tried to help make it less odd. He DD’s a manual ranger.

The issues is it’s just odd, not essentially hard, just odd to get used to. I drive it just fine. (15, on my permit, less than 500 miles of manual experience.)

Berang > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:01

What kind of car is it?

jkm7680 > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:02

Get a better clutch?

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches.
07/22/2015 at 13:02

If only. The issues isn’t that they can’t drive manual. It’s just my clutch is odd. Denver DD’s a manual ranger. It’s my car that throws people off, not manuals.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > Berang
07/22/2015 at 13:03

98 sentra 1.6

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > jkm7680
07/22/2015 at 13:04

The PO used good ones. He said it’s been like this on the second and third clutch.

The factory one was better. He used an OEM for the first replacement and a third party for the second (current ) replacement.

So it’s the specific car, not the specific clutch. May be the tranny.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
07/22/2015 at 13:05

Isn’t that a Clipse song?

davedave1111 > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:06

Have you considered getting your clutch fixed? Sounds like lubing the cable is a good place to start.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > davedave1111
07/22/2015 at 13:09

Tried that. Used different cables from different brands, adjusted them. It’s been like this through 2 different clutches and 15+ cables. It also likes to go through a cable every 10-15k miles.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:10

Gotcha.

It can’t be as difficult as my experience. Bought my 71 2002 without knowing how to drive it. Had a friend help me. Struggled. Took hours to learn and I didn’t know why. By the time I was confident it was 9pm and started pouring. I was 20 miles from home, but I made it. The problem? The accelerator pump was in upside down, so the initial light tap of the accelerator was sucking fuel out of the bowl. With more acceleration it would get off the idle jets and onto the mains. So, I had to slip the clutch more than I wanted to. I was stallin’ more then Joseph. But she was fixed immediately.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2
07/22/2015 at 13:11

That’s terrible. I learned stick in my uncles element. That’s when he taught me my trusted method. I was curious if anyone else had a different/better one.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:16

when in doubt gas it out

TheRealBicycleBuck > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:16

Teaching someone to drive with a grabby clutch is difficult, but it sounds like yours has a problem. If the engagement point is always changing, you may need a new clutch cable. There is no reason for the engagement point to change, so I would bet that the cable is sticking.

As for teaching someone else to drive stick, I was taught to bring the RPMs up so you avoid a stall and ease out on the clutch until it grabs. Once you get this down, there is no need to be slipping the clutch in and out to prevent a stall when starting form a standstill.

As for Denver, he has been spoiled (as have I). Rangers have to have the easiest, most forgiving clutches on the planet. They are hydraulic, so they aren’t subject to stiction in a clutch cable. They also have a loooooooong engagement. This is in stark contrast to my WRX. That thing has a very short engagment and is super grabby compared to my Mazda (Ranger in foreign clothes).

davedave1111 > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:17

That’s just weird. I can see why you’ve gone through so many clutches...

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time
07/22/2015 at 13:17

But constantly revving isn’t an ideal solution. After 5-10 minutes, the person is fine. It just takes them 5-10 minutes to get used to it. Sometimes more.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > davedave1111
07/22/2015 at 13:17

It’s at 230k miles. The last one was about a year ago. The PO averaged 70k per clutch.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > TheRealBicycleBuck
07/22/2015 at 13:19

Yep. I like his clutch.

I also learned on the 986. That was fun.

It had a new cable 10k ago, getting close to a new one. It still has the issue with new cables though. I think it’s the tranny as the issue as been the same with 10+ cables and 2 clutches.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:19

its the same for any manual tranny vehicle. i have to take a min to get used to switcing from a replacement stock clutch on my miata to the 6 puck racing clutch in my talon. if they really know how to drive manual then it should be no issue.

(I have driven 30+ diff manual cars)

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time
07/22/2015 at 13:21

EVERYONE has issues with it. My dad, uncle, and grandpa all raced vintage cars, quite successfully. They’ve had 50+ manual cars they’ve owned, they are all VERY good. Many DD manuals.

The issue is my car, not the people driving.

davedave1111 > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:22

Yeah, that’s what I meant.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > davedave1111
07/22/2015 at 13:24

It’s pretty good. The clutches are rated for 50k

TractorPillow > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:28

Have them scoot the seat forward. I tried teaching my wife on my old mazdaspeed3 (most difficult clutch I've ever driven) and it was a futile effort until I figured out it was hard for her because she was so far away from the pedals that she couldn't get a good feel on it. Once we scooted her up, no problem.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > TractorPillow
07/22/2015 at 13:31

Tried that. I sit 2 “clicks” farther forward than usual, that helps. I always have them sit further forward than normal. Thanks!

TractorPillow > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:33

well then I guess you just tell them they should have learned at a younger age and are destined for mediocre driving experiences for the rest of their life. good luck, though, in all seriousness. I’ve taught a lot of people how to drive stick, and while it is an awful experience hearing noises you didn’t know your car could make, the people I've taught will always remember me as the person who helped them learn a new skill.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > TractorPillow
07/22/2015 at 13:36

Yep. And what’s odd, EVERYONE I’ve taught in this car has more manual experience, some 30+ cars and 30+ years, others just a few months and a few cars. ALL have issues. It took me almost 50 miles to get it down.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:49

Have you driven another Sentra to see if this is endemic to the car? From your description in other posts (10+ cables! and multiple clutches) it really does sound like a mechanical problem. Is there any evidence of wear on the cables? If it isn’t the cable, perhaps it is a problem with the pedal. Did you try moving the pedal without a cable attached? It could be a pedal pivot problem, the wrong pedal installed (changing the pull geometry), friction in the firewall pass-through, or perhaps the clevis pin where the clutch cable attaches to the pedal.

davedave1111 > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:51

Huh? Why?

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:55

Really? It really should last much longer.

When I was a young lad who was a far worse driver I still managed to pull 120k out of the clutch in my Saturn, and then it wasn’t the disc but a noisy throwout bearing that was causing the issue. While it was apart to replace that, I just had them replace the whole thing because I was going to be paying ~$500 for labor and the parts were only another $75.

Because I grew up in the 90s, tons of my friends had Sentras like these. Most of them were red or teal GXE models and I’ve driven a few of them. I have this to say:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

A “weird” clutch doesn’t eat cables every 10-15k miles. It doesn’t need to be replaced every 70k. I would guess that it’s very slightly slipping as you drive — not enough to really notice but enough to double the amount that it wears and to mess up the cables.

I’d check all the cable brackets and make sure they’re not bent. It should catch at the same place every time. As the disc wears, it will slowly move upward in the range - to the point that you’ll notice it as it starts to wear out.

Other possibilities include a bad pressure plate (should be replaced when the clutch is done) or a heat-damaged flywheel (which can get pretty slick).

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > TheRealBicycleBuck
07/22/2015 at 13:56

I have driven others, it’s unique to my car. We’re at 16 cables in 230k, something is eating through them. Pedal seems fine.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > davedave1111
07/22/2015 at 13:56

Nissan OEM are rated for 50k, the aftermarket one in there now is 75k

TheRealBicycleBuck > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:57

Where are the breaks happening?

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection
07/22/2015 at 13:58

I know there’s something wrong. Mine is a gxe.

The think I don’t get it it has been the case with 2 different clutches AND many different brands of cables. The factory one wasn’t as bad, but still not normal. No idea why the first owner didn’t lemon law it.

desertdog5051 > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:58

You describe the way I was taught to drive a semi. (yeah, more torque but you are also starting off 80,000 lbs). It translates to cars very well and is much easier on clutches.

davedave1111 > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 13:58

That’s odd, I meant. Why such a short lifespan for the clutches?

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > davedave1111
07/22/2015 at 13:59

Not sure.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > desertdog5051
07/22/2015 at 13:59

It is. Once I got used to it, I added gas normally at launch and was faster, yet smooth. It REALLY helps.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > TheRealBicycleBuck
07/22/2015 at 14:00

Sometimes near the firewall, sometimes near the tranny.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > davedave1111
07/22/2015 at 14:02

Kinja'd!!!

SummerFun > 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches.
07/22/2015 at 14:04

Definitely racecar

Kinja'd!!!

TheRealBicycleBuck > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 14:08

A little googling and it appears this is a fairly common problem. A little more googling and I found this solution:

http://www.sr20forum.com/sr20de-technic…

davedave1111 > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 14:09

OK, that just gets odder and odder. I mean, I thought 100k miles was pretty short clutch-life in general, but to have that much variation is genuinely strange.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > davedave1111
07/22/2015 at 14:11

It really is.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > TheRealBicycleBuck
07/22/2015 at 14:13

I’ve seen that as well. I don’t think I’ll do it though. It would cost half as much as the car.

I’m fine with it, it’s just hard for other people to hop in and go. It takes them 5 minutes in a parking lot.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
07/22/2015 at 18:12

I don’t think there’s much else to it. Just need to get a feel for the clutch and how hard it bites.